Today’s episode is centred around the upcoming HippFest 2024 opening night on Wednesday 20th March, The Rugged Island: A Shetland Lyric, directed by Jenny Gilbertson, nee Jenny Brown. HippFest is proud to present this extraordinary film with the world premiere of our new music commission created by award winning multi instrumentalist and composer from Fair Isle, Inge Thomson, collaborating with another Shetland born musician, Catriona MacDonald, who is considered to be one of the world’s leading traditional fiddle players.
Digital Content Manager Christina chats to both musicians about their upcoming collaboration, and conversation meanders from discussing Jenny Gilbertson’s sensitivity when film-making, to the incredible skill of the Shetland fishermen and crofters who turned their hand to acting in the 1933 film, to particular sounds that viewers can expect during the performance (Shetlanders make note – the Unst Bridal March will feature), and the joy of this unique musical collaboration.
Sit back, relax, and enjoy, ahead of our second pre-Festival presentation premiering on Friday 23 February, which will dig a little deeper into the extraordinary life and career of Jenny Gilbertson…
Various relevant links
- More about Inge Thomson
- More about Catriona MacDonald
- Tickets for the in-person screening of The Rugged Island: A Shetland Lyric
- Tickets for the online live-stream of The Rugged Island: A Shetland Lyric
- Tickets for the online premiere of Jenny Gilbertson: ‘A Real Illuminator’
Show transcript
[00:00:00]
Alison Strauss: Hello everyone and thank you for joining us for another HippCast episode featuring conversations with the many fascinating people who work within and adjacent to the world of silent film. Our 2024 festival programme launched last week and all the screenings and events are now live, bookable and detailed online for all to see.
Here at Team HippFest we are very excited, not least because we’re finally able to talk openly about the many treats in store, including our opening night event on Wednesday 20th March, The Rugged Island: A Shetland Lyric. Directed by Jenny Gilbertson, nee Jenny Brown. HippFest is proud to present this extraordinary film with the world premiere of our new music commission, created by award winning multi instrumentalist and composer from Fair Isle, Inge Thompson, collaborating with another Shetland born musician, Catriona MacDonald, [00:01:00] who is considered to be one of the world’s leading traditional fiddle players.
In today’s episode, we hear from these two gifted musicians as they muse on the process of their collaboration, describe their reaction to seeing 1930s Shetland on screen, tantalise us with what we can expect to hear on the night, and speak about their shared admiration and respect for Jenny Gilbertson’s work.
We’re very proud of the prospect of premiering this new work, which has been funded by Creative Scotland’s National Lottery Open Fund for Organisations, and we are especially thrilled that we have secured the means to live stream the presentation to audiences around the world. Now this means that if you’re tuning in to this podcast from Newcastle or Nairobi, you too can secure a ticket to immerse yourself in the sights and sounds of Shetland – just make sure you book by 3. 30pm, that’s UTC, Coordinated Universal Time, on Wednesday 20th March, and view [00:02:00] within 48 hours of the curtain going up at 7. 30pm. Now, let’s hear from our special guests, Inge and Catriona. Happy listening.
Christina Webber: Hello. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Uh, for all the listeners who can’t see the Zoom call that we’re currently in, I’m delighted to be joined this morning by Inge Thomson and Catriona MacDonald, who, as you will have recently seen in our program launch, are coming together to perform for us for our opening night at HippFest 2024. And we are super excited about that screening and that performance.
So I’m, I’m really excited to have you both also, uh, joining me for HippCast this month. So thank you so much for coming by. I think probably the best way to start is if you wouldn’t mind, please introducing yourself to our listeners at home. So Inge, would you like to start off?
Inge Thomson: Yeah, thanks very much for having us.
My name’s Inge [00:03:00] Thompson and I come from the wee island of Fair Isle in Shetland. Um, I’m a, a musician, composer, producer type thing now. Um, it’s a very interesting proposal, um, when I was asked initially about writing this music because it’s obviously something that’s very close, close to me and my culture and upbringing.
Um,
Catriona, over to you.
Catriona Macdonald: Yeah, so I’m Catriona MacDonald and I’m also from Shetland, originally. I live in the Scottish Borders at the minute. I’m a Shetland fiddle player, so I’m a traditional musician. and composer and scholar. I work down at Newcastle University and I’m from the folk and traditional music course that we have down there, so up to my oxters in all things cultural and traditional with regard to Shetland.
Christina Webber: Oh amazing, thank you so much. I didn’t realise that you were both from Shetland, so that is incredible. I feel so [00:04:00] daft. I probably should have seen that in a note somewhere, but that’s incredible. Oh, yeah, that’s great. So I guess we should say a little bit about the commission that’s coming up.
So you’ll be performing live alongside our screening of The Rugged Island. And yeah, I guess we’re so excited to hear, to hear your music and I was wondering, is this the first time that you’d seen the film or had you heard of the film previously? Were you, you know, already fans of the film and yeah, just tell me a little bit about about your knowledge of it, really.
Inge Thomson: Well, for me, I had never seen the film before and I have to confess that my knowledge of Jenny Gilbertson was pretty scant. Um, I actually only really found out about her a couple of years ago when I was researching for, um, a project that was, uh, with a North American, well native Canadian artist.
Um, and when I [00:05:00] happened to be looking at links between Scotland and uh, North America at, at that kind of time, that kind of period, I came across Jenny then and was quite stunned that I didn’t really know. I’d heard her name before, but I didn’t really know anything about her beyond that. Um, so that, I guess that was when I first heard about her, but I hadn’t really extensively looked at her work or checked out her, um, her history and, uh, just her quite a fascinating journey for, for a start for a female filmographer at that time, but also to go up to somewhere like Shetland and be, uh, like be really hands on and across, all the way across the spectrum when it comes to all the technical side of things. Because in Shetland back then, anything that involved operating sort of technical gear and that kind of material, it all [00:06:00] fell to the men. It was never even thought of that a woman would be able to turn a recording device on, let alone know how to edit and stuff like this.
So, uh, yeah, it was quite a revelation.
Catriona Macdonald: Yeah, I’d never actually come across this specific film, but I feel as though Jenny Gilbertson has been part of my life since I was a really young lass, quite the opposite maybe from you Inge um, and maybe we’ll come on to that, but as regards the film, I mean, I just find it really fascinating, you know, um, Jenny’s type of film, she was originally Jenny Brown, she married a Shetlander, actually our leading man in this film, which is so exciting.
Um, but, you know, Jenny basically was somebody who came from Glasgow and she holidayed with her parents when she was a youngster and fell in love with Shetland and eventually fell in love with Shetlanders. So it’s a beautiful romantic kind of story in some ways but maybe, you know, she came to Shetland and I love her style of filmmaking.
[00:07:00] There’s a kind of an ethical, uh, process in her filming, which is kind of like ethnography. So she kind of became part of the community. And through that, you know, this film emerges so it’s not like a person from out side coming in. And we know that Inge as Shetlanders, it’s quite easy to make Shetland very romantic and, and kind of not real.
I think Jenny went the extra mile and it obviously seemed to be a natural thing. I don’t think it was, you know, invented or, or she was trying to do that. She just was way before her time in the way that she managed to create this bit of social history and a damn good bit of storytelling, I would say as well, which as creatives, we, we really, really want.
So it’s just lovely seeing it.
Christina Webber: you seen a lot of silent films, um, kind of just more generally just out of interest because it’s, it’s often something when I ask about, about particular titles that people have watched to accompany, but I was just wondering, do you watch a lot or any silent films generally kind of for [00:08:00] pleasure or is this, was this a new experience in that way?
Inge Thomson: I would say for me, um, I, when I was younger, we watched the, the silent, um, comedy films like Buster Keaton and Harold Lloyd and, you know, that they were very much a part of, of my childhood growing up on Fair Isle. But I didn’t really watch a great deal until I was, um, until more recently and actually I’ve been brought into it again because of friends of mine or colleagues.
That we’re doing this exact job and so actually maybe worth mentioning is Drifters that Jason Singh, who’s another collaborator of mine, and that’s John Grierson, is that his name? Um, but I find that fascinating because it’s obviously very, uh, it’s like quite old footage but it doesn’t feel like it’s dated at all.
Um, just because of the nature of it, it feels like, almost like it’s a sci fi or something, not actually footage of [00:09:00] people at sea. So yeah, apart from that, only like one or two others, the, um, Nosferatu that, that our friend Graham Stephen also scored, that, that again has got some magic to it, hasn’t it?
Just, just, again, it doesn’t feel really like it’s dated. It feels like it’s an art form that won’t date because of the nature of it. But, um, that’s about the extent of my, my knowledge, really.
Catriona Macdonald: And I would be similar to you, Inge, that I, I might. Harold Lloyd, what a fantastic, uh, footage that was and things like that.
But I think as a musician, the kind of potential to add contemporary voices into this medium is amazing, you know, and, um, I find that really fascinating that there’s a missing part, you know, as a musician, I’ve only realised in recent times working with filmmakers myself with my own compositions and things is how, you know, it’s a [00:10:00] different immediacy, using image and using music, you know. And much as the musicians, we’d love to think it had as big an impact, visual impact is massive, you know, and for musicians to kind of work and have an interplay, I think, between images and your own performance or recorded score. I mean, it’s, it’s really fab.
And I love the fact that because of the silent film, you know, the filmmaker is not there to direct you on what you can put there. You know, you could change this film, you know, because it could subvert some of that romanticism, or you could really go into it and things like that. And I’m so really looking forward to seeing what Inge is going to come up with this, because she’s just amazing.
And to be a part of it is just really exciting.
Inge Thomson: That’s very flattering. I would quite like to add on that, that one of the things that I’ve, again, have no experience with is reacting quite so, uh, um, uh, what’s the word, immersively with, [00:11:00] with something that’s visual. So there’s only so much writing that we can do until we’re actually sitting down there in front of the film, because we have to obviously react to the film, but also to each other.
So, um, that, that to me is a very, very exciting challenge, and one that I haven’t. I’ve never experienced yet. So, yeah.
Catriona Macdonald: And just the idea that it would always change unless you record the film again with the performers, you know, this can have so many different interpretations. And I wonder how much silent film filmmakers realise that.
Because that’s quite a lot of, giving quite a lot of control to somebody else. I mean, they must have, you know, I’ve often wondered about that, you know, somebody could really ruin your film, you know. And I know there is a, there is a musical version of this film, isn’t there? There’s, there is a non silent version that was made in her lifetime.
I haven’t yet listened to it. I don’t know if you have, Inge, have you?
Inge Thomson: No, I haven’t. I was I sent a link to it but I’ve chosen to not listen [00:12:00] to it until afterwards because I don’t feel like I want to be influenced. But that’s a really pertinent thing that you’ve just said there about depending on how the person is reacting can really change the mood and the dynamic of the film.
I’ve been working with a mentor, Stephen Horne, who’s the silent, that’s his profession is silent film accompaniment. And very often he’s, he has like 30 years of working for the BFI, the British Film Institute, uh, under his belt. And many times he would just rock up, not having any more, um, information about the film he was about to, to live score apart from what he’d read in the flyer or what will happen to be in the program.
And that to me seems absolutely like talk about flying by the seat of your pants. That’s just terrifying. Um, so thankfully I’ve got a little bit of a cushion in, in that I’ve got this, this time to really think about the film but many people don’t have [00:13:00] any time at all to think about what they’re about to be accompanying.
There’s, there’s so much skill in, in, in preparing as well. It’s a, it’s a very, as you say, a complex thing that involves a lot of different stimuli? Especially when, when it is more than one person working together. I think it’s interesting that you said about how the silent films that you’ve seen feel so remarkably contemporary and not, you know, 100 years old.
Christina Webber: And I think that’s the thing is, is a lot of that can be from the film text itself, but also that’s what’s so magical about having the live music alongside these films is that it makes it absolutely bang up to date cutting edge because as soon as you put a live musician, you know, in 2024 alongside a film from, from whenever it was made, it makes a completely new text, you know, and that is what is so [00:14:00] what we’re consistently telling people about HippFest is, is that, yes, it is old films, but it’s new, it’s completely live performances.
Um, so is that, is it a total gift, as you say, being able to add that extra section of, of, of the experience, um, and consistently refresh that throughout time. So, um, yeah, sorry, slight ramble there, but, but, um, thank you so much for your, for your thoughts.
Inge Thomson: No, that was a great ramble.
Christina Webber: I was also wondering, as Shetlanders, I know that you’ve both said, uh, that, that Jenny Gilbertson didn’t just jetpack in and kind of, uh, portray very, um, stereotypically, you know, romantically, but do you think that the film even just visually, is it authentic, the way that Shetland’s portrayed, do you think? Or, I mean, obviously it is a silent film [00:15:00] and it’s a story and it’s fiction, but you know, how do you, how did you feel looking at that time period?
Inge Thomson: Yeah, I thought it was very authentic. Um, and one of the things that I did at the very beginning, like the very start of my research process was go onto Google Maps and, um, you know, when you look at Street View. Then go, just go and drive yourself along the road to find out just what this area is looking like today.
Um, and it went all around to Hillswick and Eshaness and all of these, these places haven’t really changed a great deal. I mean, the houses are, are different houses, they’re more modern, but there’s not all that many more than there were at the time. Um, and some of the areas, like, the steadings are on exactly the same places as they’ve always been. Some have obviously moved, um, but I thought that that’s not only is it that accurate for the time, but it’s still really, really [00:16:00] similar to that now. But in terms of the, the land work, the practices haven’t changed a great deal either.
Delling peat is the same. People still dell peaked with a torvsker. Um, and the other, other land work, the diff difference is we’ve got tractors. We’re not, we’re not hitching up a, a Shetland pony anymore, but apart from that, it’s pretty much the same, um, land work because the land hasn’t changed that much.
Yeah. Um, so I found that. That’s pretty authentic. Um, and also the insides of the houses and things like that were really accurate to the time.
Catriona Macdonald: I thought that was really interesting Inge, I was actually looking at this period where it’s, you know, where the film comes from, kind of early 1900s and the kind of 30s.
It’s really interesting because that point in Shetland, if you go back into kind of, uh, archive images and things like that, it’s actually a time that is, you know, it’s moving [00:17:00] on in Shetland. This is a real kind of, uh, period of change, I think, in Shetland. I mean, it’s lovely in the film to see, you know, not only those really old practices going on, um, on the farmland, but then you go inside and then there’s a radio.
Or there’s suddenly this, or the kind of idea of mail and letters, letter writing and everything that’s part of this. The fact that there is a filmmaker there that’s using technology and things like that. It’s, it’s, there’s a lot of juxtaposition in it. It’s, it’s not still Victorian film images, which a lot of that is confection, you know, uh, there are a lot of the tropes, I would say in this film.
I mean, Jenny plays them, whether they’re kind of real or invented, we do go around the, you know, the delling, the peats, the, you know, the women. The things they would do in the house. These are kind of tropes, the women on the hill with the pikishi and the knitting and all those kind of things. I mean those were of course all things that Shetlanders do, but it’s a kind of a [00:18:00] concentrated, would you say that Inge, view of it all?
So there is a peerie bit of, as we would say in Shetland, a peerie bit of um, just hitting all those things that maybe to an outside audience they would have known about Shetland or they would require. Do you know what I mean? But, I mean, I think it is. It’s, it’s Shetland in that period of change, you know, before the Second World War, where there was the old ways of life were there, but, I mean, there was still this new vanguard of technology.
You can see elements, and I think that’s, that’s really fascinating.
Inge Thomson: Yeah, definitely that you could see there’s those elements of new things coming in, like for instance, the boats having motors and those things that are, that are different. But you’re right, the concentration of, of all of these little elements that make up our culture, they were kind of all shoved, shoved into play, but actually that’s, that’s not necessarily a bad thing at all.
It doesn’t have a wildly dramatic arc, which I think is. Also, really, I’m glad that [00:19:00] that, that she didn’t do something like that, which would have been like watching Shetland, the drama, which there seems to be murders every other week, which as we know, Catriona, there’s not that many murders.
Not that many murders.
Catriona Macdonald: But again, good storytelling, you know, this is the thing, and I don’t think Jenny Gilbertson was trying to make a kind of a historical documentary, you know, these are the kind of areas I think certainly within scholarly work, there’s lots of issues, especially around women’s making and creating? It’s quite easy to kind of cancel people because, you know, oh, it was all romantic or you know, blah, blah, blah, I think it’s important that we don’t go down those routes.
Of course Jenny would have been trying to sell this, you know, she was a filmmaker who wanted her work to be out there. Um, but she’s not only a filmmaker, she’s not making historical or social documentary, although it actually is quite a brilliant, there are aspects of it that are there. But she is also a filmmaker, a storyteller, and I mean that was one of the things when I was looking at this [00:20:00] film, I mean she wrote, directed, filmed and edited the whole thing.
I mean that’s no mean feat, you know, when you’re filmmaking nowadays, so. It’s important to know that it is curated, it is creative, it’s not a historical documentary. And I love that, and the fact that there’s this romantic story with her husband in it, in the middle of it, there’s a part of me that just, I, I totally buy into that.
When you know the, the, the actual story is, is that she’s obviously about to fall in love with this man herself… you know, I kind of look at Enga, the leading lady in it, and I’m like, no, Jenny, you should be there. I don’t know if you felt like that Inge, about it?
Inge Thomson: Well, one of the things that I really felt was the astounding, um, fact that all of the actors in there are just, like the family of, of Jenny’s husband, who’s like stars in it, but none of them had acting experience apart from Enga, who plays the lead female, um, part. So that, that in itself is kind of [00:21:00] amazing. There’s no accidentally looking at the camera. There’s no like really weirdly wooden, uncomfortable scenes. Um, they’re all, they’re all really well acted by crofters and fishermen. And -that’s an amazing thing to be able to direct at the time.
Again, being a woman and, and having to take, taking the, the role of being in charge of all of that. Um, yeah, it’s, it’s remarkable, really.
Catriona Macdonald: And that’s maybe why it does have a little bit of that kind of crossover between social documentary. You know, we see a lot of those silent films, the kind of, uh, five minute, people on the croft, you know, digging peats.
It has elements of that in it. But you just feel maybe because they are real people that are in it, that it’s that fact that it’s not acted just gives it an authenticity that is so fascinating. I mean, I was going right to the small details of what is on that table they’ve got there. Wanting to [00:22:00] stop and pause and really see the small details of it.
Inge Thomson: It’s a testament of what a good filmographer that Jenny was. So, so yeah. Oh yeah. I really hope people will come out and see this cause it’s just beautiful.
Christina Webber: When you think about the fact that at this point in cinema, all of the tools of filmmaking were very new.
And so the, and audiences as well, were still very new to seeing story films, you know, so all of those kind of visual indicators and those kind of, representations of Shetland… film was still an evolving language and audiences were still evolving receivers.
So it’s that, all of that kind of stuff. Now, when we go to cinema and watch film, if we know what it’s about, we’re kind of, we’re so much further ahead in how much we, we trust the film, if you know what I mean, than early audiences were. So all of that was still super important in order to set the scene and let people know what they were watching.
Um, if that makes any sense, but, I, I’m [00:23:00] keen to chat about the music and about you guys as I know that we could talk about the film all day, but before we do, I, I need to bring up that Catriona. You met Jenny Gilbertson when, when you were younger? Please, uh, let us know about that briefly.
Catriona Macdonald: Well, it’s interesting talking about kind of early technology.
Um, when I was, basically very young, I started playing Shetland trad fiddle music when I was 11 years old, 10, 11 years old. And I was taught by, at that time, one of the big kind of fiddle players. Um, Tom Anderson, and he was at that point, uh, kind of post career into his teaching in schools, and I was very lucky to have got weekly lessons for him.
But as well as being a fiddle teacher, he himself, from a sonic point of view, had been totally into early technology. He had been building valve sets, radios. If he’d been in the age of computer now, he would have, oh my god, worldwide. would [00:24:00] have been his world. He would have just loved the internet and everything like that.
But in this kind of early technology, I was also kind of, uh, understanding about the importance of that within musical terms. But when I was 13 or 14, the early 1980s, Tammy, I would call Tom Anderson, took me to go and meet Jenny Gilbertson in the Islesborough Community Centre. So at that point in time, she was, what I remember about her was she was showing a review of her films that she made with Inuit communities, which was a latter piece of work that she did. Um, but she was this diminutive at this point, peerie old wife, she obviously had grown very, very long hair that had gone completely white and she wore it up in a bun, like, almost like an Edwardian bun. And she was out there, out front, talking about her films, but not in a showy, dramatic performance kind of way, in more of a… it was just really intimate.
It was just fantastic. And I was [00:25:00] there sitting alongside Tom Anderson, who obviously had huge respect for Jenny. Um, but through that interest in technology, you know, she was exactly his kind of a partner in crime there, but from a visual kind of point of view. So that was really, I mean, I, I suppose with hindsight, I see how important that is now because one of my things that I’m doing at the minute is PhD on elevating cultural women and from the mid 20th century kind of backwards.
And, you know, Jenny kind of comes in that space, but obviously she married into being a Shetland, uh, and stayed in Shetland for a little latter part of her life. But I just, at that period in time, she seemed a little bit like Tom Anderson herself. In her 80s and in her latter point in life, people came to understand and respect a little bit more about what she’d actually achieved.
I think she did it quite quietly and she was just into the work, I think, and it was lovely to see both her and Tammy eventually get these moments where, [00:26:00] civically, people were saying, come and do a big lecture at the community centre in Lerwick. Do you know what I mean? And have your moment, and everybody who was interested in her work were there, and I was there in front row with Tammy.
Uh, absolutely hanging on every word of this amazing woman. You know, I didn’t have those role models at that point in time. All the players I knew were male, apart from a few piano players, etc. So it was hugely inspiring, you know? But as I say, not in a showy way, in a really kind of, uh, interested in her work and so active and vivacious
really in the latter part of her life. Because I think she died in 1990. So yeah, she’s, uh, she had a really great existence, I think.
Christina Webber: Oh, thank you so much for that. Um, I, I really felt like I was there as well, like hanging on to the words, but I know exactly what you mean with that kind [00:27:00] of quiet,
focused, confident, you know, when people really know what they’re talking about and, and are just so passionate about the work, but quietly, it’s such a powerful thing. Um, thank you for sharing. So I guess it’s time that we should talk about the music and the composition and what audiences can expect to kind of hear and be, and be delighted by in March.
So. Yeah. Well, that’s the, that’s, that’s the question. Uh, what, what kind of sound it doesn’t have to be, you know, you don’t have to sing any, any tunes, but what, what kind of sound should audiences expect alongside The Rugged Island?
Inge Thomson: Well, I would say they’re, they’re to expect some pretty traditional sounds.
I mean, part of my, my reasoning for, for bringing Catriona in is because she is a traditional shetland fiddle player and very, very [00:28:00] skilled and also very great lyrical player and she can also, as you can, as you could tell, she could tell a story, but she can also really tell a story with her instrument. So it’s important for me to bring Shetland-y sounds into the score.
In terms of the actual material, I have written several short themes. Just to match the people. So there’s a few of the characters have got their own themes and um, they recur sometimes or they sometimes will recur again in a slightly different tempo or a slightly different card sequence. Um, I don’t really want to give away a massive amount because there’s also, there has to be room for reacting there on the night, reacting to the mood.
And although as musicians, we, when we play live, we also play to the audience. So this is going to be interesting given that, you know, part of the thing that feeds us is we finish a set of tunes and we get clapped at, which is [00:29:00] always the good, great feeling, or we don’t get clapped at, but we mostly get clapped.
Um, but we won’t be able to really judge the, the enjoyment of the film and the score until afterwards. We might be able to pick up some of the atmosphere, but not a great deal to react to the, to the audience there. So yeah, that will be an interesting challenge, but I guess leaving enough open, enough space that we can also react to the moment, to the film.
Um, so yes, so I would say instrumentation wise, it’s mostly accordion and fiddle and I will have, I’m bringing a bit of like the technological hardware aspect of it will be only to trigger samples, environmental sounds, and yeah, things like the birds and the wind and the waves and all these things that are very important.
It’s actually worth saying one of these things that I felt really [00:30:00] came across in this piece of work is the environment. Um, Jenny has really made it feel like it’s a character in the film as well, ‘ cause there’s nothing taken for granted. She’s, she’s, uh, shown all these different time, times of year, like spring environments, summer environments, autumn, uh, and I, I feel like she’s really kind of bringing the environment and the nature into the film as, as a character itself.
Um, so there will be environmental sounds interwoven into it. Um, I don’t really know what else I can tell you.
Christina Webber: It sounds super rich, uh, like texturally, like there’s so much there to just, um, Oh, I’m so excited. Um, but I wanted to pick up on what you were saying about the audience and the reaction with the audience, because I think it is a really interesting part of accompanying a film.
[00:31:00] And I guess, I guess I should say just to, to double check. Have either of you played alongside a film before, or was this the first time?
Inge Thomson: Well, I have played with, with visuals, but not in a sense of scoring to the visuals. So no, nothing like this, nothing on the scale of this.
Catriona Macdonald: And I just wrote actually a film myself this past summer that I performed with live against images at the An Lanntair in Stornoway? A piece called Wave Walking, so I’ve just had that experience, but it was very much a conversation because I’d been working with a filmmaker so it was, you know, I’d already been part of the creative thing. I obviously played against it and everything. This is going to be a little different because it feels like, I don’t know about you Inge, but it feels like a bit more of even a responsibility because it’s not like you can have that conversation with Jenny.
Do you know what I mean? To say. How do you think about this or, you know, [00:32:00] but I, I just think having been in a room with her for a couple of hours, I think she would just be like, go for it.
It’ll be really interesting. I’m so fascinated. I mean, that idea of improvisation, scary as it is, Inge, that’ll, I’m sure, be a lot about what this is going to be as a performance, you know, is being triggered by your fabulous tunes and, and all the things that you’re going to do. But there will still be that aspect of, you know, just being two musicians in there, trying to fill the space and, and react into the images that we see.
Christina Webber: I have so much admiration for the musicians that accompany all of our films. I mean, and generally for musicians, I’m not in any way musical myself, sadly. But it’s, you know, in a gig, you, the musicians will have you know, banter with the audience between songs and breaks and, and get a sense of how it’s going.
But as you say, with, with [00:33:00] this, it may feel daunting because you don’t, you don’t necessarily have those pauses, but you definitely, I think, will feel how the audience is feeling, um, throughout. And we, we had an online conversation with the Dodge Brothers, um, the year before last, I think it was, about their kind of process.
They’re a skiffle, um, blues band. And, um, they were saying that the main thing that they feed off, as well as the film text, is the response from the live audience and the, the audible kind of, you know, gasps and, and laughter and stuff that they can hear. There does seem to be a real kind of reciprocal, um, exchange with the audience.
So that is exciting. Um, but also just… a part of my admiration is always also because you’re playing solidly for so long, you know, normally in a gig, yeah, you do have breaks between, between songs, but, , sorry, not to make it sound [00:34:00] daunting, but it’s just, I am to have so much respect and yes, such a skilled thing.
Catriona Macdonald: I don’t know Inge what you feel like about that, about, um, when we play as musicians. to an audience. I mean, having these visuals is, gives that added impact around how we manipulate emotion in these situations. I mean, as traditional musicians, I think we have that in shed loads, whether you can actually verbalize it and analyze it, but that is such a big part of traditional music is that idea of being able to make people dance, make people feel happy, make people cry, make people feel sad.
You know, it’s. It’s so part of kind of lived community, rural life, you know, and it’s a really authentic part still even today in Shetland. Everybody’s got an opinion on tunes and music in Shetland, even if they’re not musicians, which is one of the lovely things, you know, so that would be one of the things that I would be really [00:35:00] interested to see what happens is how far you can go or whether we have to restrain it to let the images take those moments.
You know, it’s going to be interesting because you could over egg this whole thing.
Inge Thomson: Yeah, it sure is. And I, I, I think we have got earlier on, you mentioned responsibility, and I think we also have responsibility to, to not break the bubble too much for people. Um, so that it’s not always pulling attention away from the film. I guess being subtle when, when subtlety is, is necessary and being more bolshie when being bolshie
yeah it’s very exciting.
Catriona Macdonald: It’s gonna be so much fun.
Christina Webber: I wondered Inge if you… I wondered, yeah, a lot of our other musicians have completely different approaches. And I think that’s what’s, what’s quite interesting as a non musical person to hear about. So I wondered if there was anything else, like if there’s anything else that you wanted to say about your [00:36:00] strategy there with the themes and maybe how you came up with particular sounds for particular characters?
Inge Thomson: Yeah, well, I, I would, without giving away too many spoilers from the film, but I, I kind of looked at the movement of the characters in the, in different settings. So like, um, at the first scene that shows Enga in her house with her family has got a slightly more, it’s not hectic, it’s a slightly more kind of languid feel.
So the theme that I’ve written for Enga there is just a little bit more laid back, and then the, the other, the scene in Johnny’s house with Johnny’s family, it’s just got a little bit more movement. It’s like they’re all a little bit more wiry. And, um, so I’ve just tried to take a little bit of that and into the, the melodic composition.
I guess I’ve done that with all, all of the separate themes. Um, actually it’s worth mentioning just now because I, have pulled in the traditional tune, the Unst Bridal March, which will, should I say [00:37:00] it because this is maybe a wee bit overly spoil-y? Okay, I’m not going to say where, but I thought it would be good to have something that is recognizable to every Shetland, every Shetlander knows this tune and it’s associated with love.
It’s associated with commitment and, um, it’s also just such a beautiful tune that’s not… it’s not played to a strict measure, you know? It’s got the elasticity and I mean, traditionally it was played, uh, on the hoof by the fiddle player for the bride to mar to march to, to walk to. Um, so you’d be going over rugs and round corners and up and down.
So hence the tempo can kind of slightly speed up and slow down and it, and it feels, yeah, it has that elastic quality to it. So that is one of the, the two pieces of traditional music that are included in the piece, but it’s definitely worth the mention just in the, the beauty of that tune itself.
Christina Webber: No, [00:38:00] that’s perfect.
Thank you. And don’t worry, I don’t think it’s, it’s too spoiler. It’s quite nice to have something for those that do know that tune to go into. looking or listening, I guess, listening for it. Um, and it kind of, it answers the question I was going to ask, which is, do you think without watching the film, do you think anyone listening to this would just, would know it was a Shetland story?
And it sounds like…
Inge Thomson: Yeah.
Christina Webber: The answer is yes.
Inge Thomson: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. There’s not really many, like there’s very little in terms of sort of manipulation using technology. Um, I just didn’t want anything to feel, you know, really anachronistic or, or whatever. I mean, I am playing an accordion, which, although they were in Shetland in the 1930s, but they weren’t very.
They weren’t very common, were they? They were like, just like
Catriona Macdonald: Well, I don’t know, they were on the rise. Tammy was, you know, he was starting up his dance band, uh, you know, the whole Scottish dance band scene. It became a big thing, you know, the radio, earlier [00:39:00] radio was punting all those, those accordions to Shetlanders certainly took, took that on.
Inge Thomson: There’s no way back. Yeah.
Catriona Macdonald: But the fiddle would be the kind of signifier, I think, there. I mean, fiddle is Yeah, it’s the biggest instrument has been historically.
Inge Thomson: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, yeah, so yes, I think anyone listening to the score, independent of the film would know it was a Shetland film. So.
Christina Webber: Oh, amazing. Thank you so much.
We’re, our time is dwindling, but I have just two more questions to ask you quickly before we have to, um, part, and it’s about the collaborative element between the both of you. Um, so the first question I guess is have, as musicians, have you guys collaborated before? Is this, is this a kind of, uh,
a synergy that has been around for a long time or is this a new kind of relationship?
Inge Thomson: We do have a history.
Catriona Macdonald: Yes! Long history!
Inge Thomson: [00:40:00] Um, yeah, although I would say probably I’ve played more with Catriona over the last two or three years than I have over all of the years that I’ve known Catriona, which is a lot now because we’re both getting on, aren’t we?
Catriona Macdonald: Surely no Inge, surely no…
Inge Thomson: But Yeah, so I’ve known about Catriona since I was at school and, uh, I’ve always been a massive fan and aspired to be, still, still aspiring to be more like Catriona in real life.
Catriona Macdonald: Oh my god, Inge.
Inge Thomson: Yeah, shut up. Um, so we’re, uh, yeah, we’ve been playing in another outfit which has some Norwegian players and, um, it’s a sort of, actually, I’ll let you talk about it, Catriona.
Catriona Macdonald: Yeah, so a couple of years ago, a friend of mine, Annbjorg Lien, who’s a hardanger fiddle player in Norway, we decided we wanted to kind of do some more work together. And we [00:41:00] both, when we were looking around for the first person to ask to be in the band, we both kind of came to Inge, whose name was right up there.
And then I did a gig a couple of years ago, a Shetland gig in the Royal Concert Hall in Glasgow, and I heard Inge go in and doing some of her solo stuff, because I hadn’t really seen it live, and I was just so blown away. I mean, Inge, right back to you in just admiration, and just the fact that, you know, you’ve carved out this amazing creative space, just with the way that you use your instrument, the way you think compositionally.
You know, whole idea of the Shetland, the Shetland sounds and, but just taking it to a new contemporary level. And it’s just been lovely. And that project, I think we’ve all got on really well. Um, and hope to do some more stuff with that. So, but this is lovely that we’ve kind of gone from quite a big band that we’ve ended up with in that other project to come right back down to just me, me and you Inge.
It’s, I’m really [00:42:00] looking forward to that. I think it’s kind of going back to basics that we should have probably done about 20 years ago?
Inge Thomson: That said, I think it’s possibly a much better time for us to be collaborating now because I think I would have been a little bit too daunted and starstruck back then. Um, but really, yeah, I don’t know, I’ve, I kind of found over the, the course of the last few years of work, not just playing music together on stage, but off stage, we, we do have a pretty close relationship.
Um, and also I just feel like I can totally trust you. I don’t feel in any way, um, self-conscious about what, what my output is, and that that is really important for, for creating something new when you’re working with some, somebody that you know is gonna be, uh, accepting and sympathetic and, and everything.
So, I’m, I’m, yeah, that’s one of the, the reasons that I, I decided to. bring you on board
here.[00:43:00]
Catriona Macdonald: Oh, that’s really nice. And actually for me, Inge, it’s really important that, um, you know, this is a real luxury to actually work as part of somebody else’s creative vision. I mean, I know that we will obviously play together and it’ll be an equal feel in the, in the room on the night because we’re both there performing.
But part of my kind of, uh, interest in being part of this is actually to, to go out of the director role into, you know, being the player and just trying to understand your, your thoughts, your creative thoughts, and that is a new kind of a new place. You know, I don’t go to that place very often and I’m really looking forward to that, that challenge.
Inge Thomson: This is brilliant. I’m really, really appreciating, appreciating everything that you’re saying, and this must be sounding like such a sickening love fest.
Christina Webber: It’s so nice. This is so lovely to hear. Um, [00:44:00] yeah, it’s, yeah, thank you so much for sharing, genuinely. it’s, I, yeah, I guess we’ve got a couple, like one minute left for the last very quick fire round question of lastly, what are you most looking forward to about the project? And it might be working together as you’ve just been saying,
because that was, that was lovely.
Inge Thomson: Yeah, I think actually just, I, I’m really looking forward to the, the first actual technical run through. So I’m really looking forward just to seeing how it all comes together and how it works. And there’s, there’s something about having the last rehearsal. I don’t know if you feel this way, Catriona, but when you have the last, the last thing before you go on stage to do anything, it’s those very minute wee tweaks that you do at the very, very end.
Um, so I’m looking forward to doing the technical rehearsal and just being like: this, these things all work. Maybe this happens a little bit [00:45:00] later, maybe this. So it’s almost like the last bits, you know when you put the last bit of the jigsaw puzzle in and you’re like, oh, so I’m looking forward to that, to making that sound.
So yeah. What about you, Catriona?
Catriona Macdonald: Um, well, I suppose with my feminist head on, I’m really looking forward to just raise Shetland women and highlight their creative work, contemporary wise, but also, you know, really to highlight Jenny’s work. She’s a phenomenal artist and creative. And, you know, people like Shona Main, who’ve just done a PhD on her ethical filmmaking.
I mean, we cannot say enough. I think there will be more things that will come out about Jenny and she will be, you know, uh, elevated further. So, I mean, thanks to HippFest for, for picking this film. You know, it’s really timely and, um, I think it’s going to be a good night.
Christina Webber: Oh, thank you both so, so [00:46:00] much. And it’s worth noting as well, um, I might cut this because it all depends on timelines, uh, but we will be having a, an online presentation, uh, from Shona about Jenny Gilbertson, uh, to go, to go alongside our kind of February as our Jenny Gilbertson month.
It’s Shona and, Sarah Neely both talking about her work more, more broadly. So that’ll be, yeah. It’s such a privilege to be able to yeah, bring her work to more people. Thank you so, so much for everything that you’ve, that you’ve shared today. I could not be more excited about this, this screening and getting to see it live. And yeah, we will see you in March.
Inge Thomson: Brilliant. Thank you so much for having us. Listen out for more episodes, like and subscribe wherever you are listening. We would love it if you would rate and review this podcast [00:47:00] to help us reach a bigger and broader audience. A final request. HippFest needs help, and you might be our missing link. We rely on grants and sponsorship for more than 80% of HippFest costs to bring you great films with live music and much more. Could you or someone you know benefit from a sponsorship slot in this very podcast? If so, then please get in touch by emailing hippfest@falkirk.gov.uk.
Alison Strauss: We’d love to hear from you. Thank you so much.
The Hippodrome Silent Film Festival 